ON THE CHESS PLATFORM FICGS, THERE WAS A DEBATE ON MY PUBLIC APPEAL

Recently, on about 04 November 2023, I published my text

“A Public Appeal to Chess Organisations on the Bombing of the Gaza Strip”

I published this appeal in both English and Estonian.

The core of this Public Appeal was the following call:

… I call on all chess organisations to either immediately lift the restrictions imposed on Russia and Belarus or to impose the same restrictions on Israel, whose disproportionate and indiscriminate military action is killing a catastrophic number of civilians in the Gaza Strip every day.

Suppose it is permissible to obstruct Russian sports persons to get Russia to stop its military aggression against Ukraine. In that case, it must also be permissible to obstruct Israeli sports persons to get Israel to stop its war crimes and to punish the perpetrators.

In Estonia, I sent this Public Appeal to several chess organisations and one chess magazine, but none of them even replied that they had received my letter. I also officially sent the letter to the Estonian Correspondence Chess Federation via the ICCF server.

Therefore, in the future, I don’t want anything to do with organisations like the Estonian Correspondence Chess Association, the Estonian Chess Federation, or the Estonian Chess Support Group or whatever it was called. I also no longer wish to have any contact with the publication “Eesti maleelu” [= “Estonian Chess Life”].

I also sent this Public Appeal to one of the mailing lists of Estonian correspondence chess players. There, I received a reply from only one Israeli supporter, who tried to frame me as an anti-Semite, and to whom I replied that I refused to talk to him or play chess with him in the future.

I also sent this Public Appeal to several international chess organisations, as well as some national chess organisations. Only one of them responded, stating that it was not within its competence to lift the sanctions.

Conversation on the FICGS Chess Platform

On 05 November 2023, on the chess platform’s FICGS Forum, I also launched a discussion entitled

“A Public Appeal to Chess Organisations”

This conversation can probably only be read by a registered user. Also, I’m unsure if this conversation will remain there, for example, after I leave FICGS.

Apart from me, there were only three people there.

Ilmars Cirulis took part in the conversation episodically. He expressed his condolences for the civilians killed on both sides in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict and said that both Netanyahu and Hamas should be in prison. I replied that I had roughly the same view.

Two people participated in the interview at length: Herbert Kruse, a highly rated chess player there, and Thibault de Vassal, who, by his own admission, is one of the organisers of the FICGS chess platform.

Several months ago, I had told Thibault de Vassal that I no longer wished to speak to him. At the time, the discussion was about the chess sanctions imposed on Russia and Belarus, which I criticised. Still, I eventually interpreted Thibault de Vassal’s replies as pure demagogy and personal attacks. At that time, I decided I would no longer play chess on the FICGS platform because of the chess organisers and chess grandmasters’ inappropriate style in the Forum discussions.

This time, it went even worse.

In my view, Herbert Kruse and Thibault de Vassal completely ignored the text and the arguments I put forward in the Public Appeal and then completely ignored the arguments I put forward during the discussion. In doing so, both of them constantly changed the subject and the context and interpreted what I had said in a completely arbitrary and illogical manner.

Herbert Kruse made one after another series of irrelevant arguments, and when I replied to them, he was already changing the subject again. His favourite topic was Jews and anti-Semitism, completely ignoring the fact that my Public Appeal had stated clearly, emphatically, that we should not impose chess sanctions based on the chess player’s nationality.

In the end, however, things took a criminal turn.

I quote below the most characteristic parts of this conversation.

Personal attacks

HERBERT KRUSE:

I wished you Had more emphaty for the victims 

JÜRI EINTALU:

Herbert Kruse:

“I wished you Had more emphaty for the victims”

After all, you are directly insulting and slandering me.

Get lost, Mr Herbert Kruse.

xxx

JÜRI EINTALU:

The 07 October attack is quite recent, and I would not say that all the circumstances are clear. For example, I am not sure that Hamas “chose” to kill civilians.

The only thing that is sure is that some number of civilians were killed by Hamas. It is sure, because Israel accuses Hamas of killing the civilians, and one of Hamas leaders has publicly admitted, that during that attack, Hamas killed some civilians “accidentally”.

Killing civilians may make it a war crime. Intentionally killing civilians may make it an act of terrorism.

HERBERT KRUSE:

“I am not sure that Hamas “chose” to kill civilians. “

for that u dont need empathy, u need to be in prison!

JÜRI EINTALU:

Me:

“I am not sure that Hamas ‘chose’ to kill civilians.”

Herbert Kruse:

“for that u dont need empathy, u need to be in prison!”

My answer:

Please arrest this man with the name “Herbert Kruse”. He is obviously a fascist.

xxx

HERBERT KRUSE:

now the russian trolls are here too, its sad

JÜRI EINTALU:

Herbert Kruse:

“now the russian trolls are here too, its sad”

I do not know, perhaps Herbert Kruse kept in mind, for example, the following section from my Public Appeal:

“Suppose it is permissible to obstruct Russian sports persons to get Russia to stop its military aggression against Ukraine. In that case, it must also be permissible to obstruct Israeli sports persons to get Israel to stop its war crimes and to punish the perpetrators.”

Or, perhaps the following one:

“However, the civil war in Ukraine, which started in 2014, had killed around 20,000 civilians by 2022. But, by November 2023, the Russian invasion that began in 2022 had already killed hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian soldiers and hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers.”

You are a moral and intellectual bastard, Mr. Herbert Kruse.

And what if someone says here, on the Forum of the chess platform:

“Now the paedophiles, sodomites and corpse-eaters are here too, its sad.”

How would you publicly prove here, on the Forum, that you are not a paedophile, sodomite and corpse-eater?

xxx

THIBAULT DE VASSAL:

Juri, you probably spread fake news:

___________________________

Social media users recently circulated video footage they claimed shows an Israeli helicopter killing Israelis at an Oct. 7 concert in Israel. (…)

In doubt, such news (probably fake news) have no place here… Thanks in advance.

Now we heard your message (and I did respond to your public appeal), feel free to let chess organizations decide what they have to do, no need to discuss it more here.

JÜRI EINTALU:

Thibault de Vassal:

“Juri, you probably spread fake news:…”

“In doubt, such news (probably fake news) have no place here… Thanks in advance.”

I have NOT shared that video here, on the Forum, neither a link to it. And I have NOT mentioned that video here, on the Forum.

You are a sick slanderer, Mr. Thibault de Vassal.

Don’t worry, I will not play a single chess game on the platform FICGS anymore. I decided so already half a year ago.

Summary

Herbert Kruse and Thibault de Vassal, chess masters and organisers, slandered me openly and to my face.

I repeatedly told them that the attack of 07 October was not relevant to my Public Appeal because Hamas cannot be expelled from FIDE or ICCF because it never was there and never could be. I also pointed out that the text of the Public Appeal had already explained why it was not wise to talk about chess sanctions against Hamas. I also stressed that the attack of 7 October cannot be a justification for war crimes and crimes against humanity committed by Israel.

Despite my protests, they continued to talk about the attack of 07 October to distract attention from the massive war crimes committed by Israel in the Gaza Strip.

In doing so, they sought an opportunity to attack my person.

Concerning the attack of 07 October, I only reported the following:

• Hamas claimed that it also killed civilians in the course of this attack, but Hamas claimed that it was accidental.
• It is possible that Israel itself killed some civilians.
• I am not yet confident about all the facts of this attack of 07 October as a recent event.
• The details of this attack do not change the question of Israeli war crimes and the need to impose chess sanctions on Israel, as they were imposed on Russia.

In fact, the very next day after Herbert Kruse made the scurrilous accusations to me, the Israeli newspapers themselves reported Israel itself killed some of the civilians on 07 October. The Israeli news mentioned, among other things, an Israeli attack helicopter and also claimed that Hamas, when it launched the attack, did not know that the dance party was still going on.

Nowhere and to no one have I claimed that any video of an Israeli helicopter is authentic, certainly not in a conversation on the FICGS Forum, nor did I share such a video there.

All in all, we can see that sport, including chess, is being politicised and politicised in a biased way: Russia, which started the war, is being punished, but Israel, which is committing genocide, is not.

However, supporters of such policies, such as Herbert Kruse and Thibault de Vassal, avoid engaging in substantive debate and are eager to find ways to incriminate and falsely accuse those who make arguments that do not suit them.

There has been no substantive debate.

MALEPLATVORMIL FICGS TOIMUS ARUTELU MINU AVALIKU PÖÖRDUMISE ÜLE

Hiljuti, umbes 04. novembril 2023. a., avaldasin oma teksti

"Avalik pöördumine maleorganisatsioonide poole seoses Gaza sektori pommitamisega"

Avaldasin selle pöördumise nii eesti kui ka inglise keeles.

Selle Avaliku Pöördumise tuum seisnes järgnevas üleskutses:

...teen kõikidele maleorganisatsioonidele üleskutse kas viivitamatult tühistada Venemaale ja Valgevenele seatud piirangud või rakendada samu piiranguid ka Iisraelile, kelle ebaproportsionaalse ja valimatu sõjalise tegevuse tõttu hukkub iga päev katastroofiline arv tsiviilisikuid Gaza sektoris.

Kui on lubatud tõkestada Venemaa sportlasi eesmärgiga, et Venemaa lõpetaks oma sõjalise kallaletungi Ukrainale, siis peab olema lubatud tõkestada ka Iisraeli sportlasi eesmärgiga, et Iisrael lõpetaks oma sõjakuritegude sooritamise ning et süüdlased saaks karistatud.

Eestis saatsin selle Avaliku Pöördumise mitmele maleorganisatsioonile ja ühele maleajakirjale, ent mitte ükski neist isegi ei vastanud, et ta on minu kirja kätte saanud. Seejuures Eesti Kirimaleühingule saatsin selle kirja ka ametlikult ICCF serveri kaudu.

Seetõttu edasipidi ei soovi ma enam mitte mingisugust tegemist teha selliste organisatsioonidega nagu Eesti Kirimaleühing, Eesti Maleliit või Eesti Male Toetusgrupp või mis ta nimi oligi. Samuti ei soovi ma enam mitte mingisugust kokkupuudet omada väljaandega "Eesti maleelu".

Selle Avaliku Pöördumise saatsin ka ühele Eesti kirimaletajate meililistile. Seal vastas mulle ainult üks Iisraeli toetaja, kes üritas mind antisemiidiks lavastada ja kellele ma vastasin, et ma keeldun temaga vestlemast ja temaga edaspidi ka malet mängimast.

Saatsin selle Avaliku Pöördumise ka mitmetele rahvusvahelistele maleorganisatsioonidele ja mõnede riikide maleorganisatsioonidele. Neist vastas ainult üks, teatades, et sanktsioonide tühistamine ei ole tema pädevuses.

Vestlus maleplatvormil FICGS

05. novembril 2023. a. algatasin diskussiooni ka maleplatvormi FICGS Foorumis, pealkirjaga 

"A Public Appeal to Chess Organisations" 

Seda vestlust saab tõenäoliselt lugeda ainult registreeritud kasutaja. Samuti pole ma kindel, kas see vestlus seal säilib näiteks pärast seda, kui ma FICGS kasutajate seast lahkun.

Vestluses osales peale minu seal ainult kolm isikut.

Ilmars Cirulis osales vestluses episoodiliselt. Ta avaldas kaastunnet Iisraeli/Palestiina konfliktis mõlemal poolel hukkunud tsiviilide pärast ja leidis, et nii Netanyahu kui Hamas peaksid vanglas olema. Vastasin, et mul on umbes samasugune vaade.

Pikemalt osalesid vestluses kaks isikut: Herbert Kruse, kes on seal kõrge reitinguga kirimaletaja ja Thibault de Vassal, kelle enda sõnade põhjal võib järeldada, et ta on maleplatvormi FICGS üks organisaatoreid.

Seejuures mitmeid kuid tagasi olin ma Thibault de Vassalile teatanud, et ma ei soovi temaga enam vestelda. Tollal käis vestlus Venemaale ja Valgevenele kehtestatud malesanktsioonide üle, mida ma kritiseerisin, Thibault de Vassali vastuseid aga tõlgendasin ma lõpuks puhta demagoogiana ning isikuvastaste rünnakutena. Tookord otsustasin, et ma ei mängi enam platvormil FICGS malet, kuna sellel platvormil on Foorumis maleorganisaatorid ja malesuurmeistrid vestluste käigus esinenud täiesti ebasobivas stiilis.

Seekord läks veelgi halvemini.

Minu hinnangul Herbert Kruse ja Thibault de Vassal täielikult ignoreerisid minu Avaliku Pöördumise teksti ja selles esitatud argumente, seejärel aga täielikult ignoreerisid ka minu poolt vestluse käigus esitatud argumente. Seejuures mõlemad muutsid pidevalt teemat ja konteksti ning tõlgendasid minu sõnu täiesti meelevaldselt ja ebaloogiliselt.

Herbert Kruse esitas üksteise järel rea asjassepuutumatuid argumente, kui ma neile vastasin, siis ta juba muutis uuesti teemat. Tema lemmikteemaks olid juudid ja antisemitism, kusjuures ta täielikult ignoreeris seda, et minu Avalik Pöördumine teatas selge sõnaga, rõhutatult, et malesanktsioone ei tohi rakendada lähtuvalt maletaja rahvusest.

Lõpuks võttis asi aga suisa kriminaalse pöörde. 

Tsiteerin alljärgnevalt iseloomulikumaid kohti sellest vestlusest.

Isikuvastased rünnakud

HERBERT KRUSE:

I wished you Had more emphaty for the victims

JÜRI EINTALU:
Herbert Kruse:

"I wished you Had more emphaty for the victims"

After all, you are directly insulting and slandering me.
Get lost, Mr Herbert Kruse.

xxx 

JÜRI EINTALU:

The 07 October attack is quite recent, and I would not say that all the circumstances are clear. For example, I am not sure that Hamas "chose" to kill civilians.

The only thing that is sure is that some number of civilians were killed by Hamas. It is sure, because Israel accuses Hamas of killing the civilians, and one of Hamas leaders has publicly admitted, that during that attack, Hamas killed some civilians "accidentally".

Killing civilians may make it a war crime. Intentionally killing civilians may make it an act of terrorism.

HERBERT KRUSE:

"I am not sure that Hamas "chose" to kill civilians. "

for that u dont need empathy, u need to be in prison!

JÜRI EINTALU:

Me:

"I am not sure that Hamas 'chose' to kill civilians."

Herbert Kruse:

"for that u dont need empathy, u need to be in prison!"

My answer:

Please arrest this man with the name "Herbert Kruse". He is obviously a fascist.

xxx 

HERBERT KRUSE:

now the russian trolls are here too, its sad

JÜRI EINTALU:

Herbert Kruse:

"now the russian trolls are here too, its sad"

I do not know, perhaps Herbert Kruse kept in mind, for example, the following section from my Public Appeal:

"Suppose it is permissible to obstruct Russian sports persons to get Russia to stop its military aggression against Ukraine. In that case, it must also be permissible to obstruct Israeli sports persons to get Israel to stop its war crimes and to punish the perpetrators."

Or, perhaps the following one:

"However, the civil war in Ukraine, which started in 2014, had killed around 20,000 civilians by 2022. But, by November 2023, the Russian invasion that began in 2022 had already killed hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian soldiers and hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers."

You are a moral and intellectual bastard, Mr. Herbert Kruse.

And what if someone says here, on the Forum of the chess platform:

"Now the paedophiles, sodomites and corpse-eaters are here too, its sad."

How would you publicly prove here, on the Forum, that you are not a paedophile, sodomite and corpse-eater?

xxx 

THIBAULT DE VASSAL:

Juri, you probably spread fake news:

___________________________

Social media users recently circulated video footage they claimed shows an Israeli helicopter killing Israelis at an Oct. 7 concert in Israel. (...)

In doubt, such news (probably fake news) have no place here... Thanks in advance.

Now we heard your message (and I did respond to your public appeal), feel free to let chess organizations decide what they have to do, no need to discuss it more here.

JÜRI EINTALU:

Thibault de Vassal:

"Juri, you probably spread fake news:..."

"In doubt, such news (probably fake news) have no place here... Thanks in advance."

I have NOT shared that video here, on the Forum, neither a link to it. And I have NOT mentioned that video here, on the Forum.

You are a sick slanderer, Mr. Thibault de Vassal.

Don't worry, I will not play a single chess game on the platform FICGS anymore. I decided so already half a year ago.

Kokkuvõte

Malesuurmeistrid ja -organisaatorid Herbert Kruse ja Thibault de Vassal laimasid mind avalikult ja otse näkku.

Ma teatasin neile korduvalt, et 07. oktoobri rünnak ei puutu minu Avaliku Pöördumise puhul üldse asjasse, sest Hamasi ei saa FIDE-st või ICCF-ist välja heita, kuna ta pole sinna kunagi kuulunudki ja ei saanudki kuuluda. Samuti rõhutasin, et Avaliku Pöördumise tekstis oli see juba ära seletatud, miks pole arukas Hamasi puhul malesanktsioonidest rääkida. Samuti rõhutasin, et 07. oktoobri rünnak ei saa õigustuseks olla Iisraeli poolsetele sõjakuritegudele ja inimsusevastastele kuritegudele.

Minu protestidest hoolimata jätkasid nad vestlust 07. oktoobri rünnaku teemal, et tähelepanu kõrvale juhtida seejärel Iisraeli poolt Gaza sektoris sooritatud massiivsetelt sõjakuritegudelt.

Seejuures otsisid nad võimalust, et rünnata minu isikut.

07. oktoobri rünnakuga seoses teatasin ma ainult järgmist:

• Et Hamas võttis omaks, et selle rünnaku käigus tappis ta ka tsiviile, ent Hamas väitis, et see juhtus kogemata. 
• Et on võimalik, et osa tsiviile tappis Iisrael ise.
• Et ma pole selle 07. oktoobri rünnaku kui värske sündmuse suhtes veel kõikides küsimustes kindel.
• Et selle rünnaku detailid ei muuda küsimust Iisraeli sõjakuritegudest ja vajadusest kehtestada Iisraelile malesanktsioonid nii, nagu need kehtestati Venemaale.

Seejuures juba järgmisel päeval pärast Herbert Kruse poolt mulle esitatud võikaid süüdistusi teatasid Iisraeli ajalehed ise, et osa tsiviile 07. oktoobril tappis Iisrael ise. Iisraeli uudised mainisid muuhulgas Iisraeli lahingukopterit ja väitsid ka seda, et rünnakut alustades Hamas ei teadnud seda, et tantsupidu kestab ikka veel edasi.

Ma pole mitte kusagil ja mitte kellelegi väitnud, et mingisugune video Iisraeli helikopterist on autentne, ammugi ei väitnud ma seda FICGS Foorumil toimunud vestluses ega jaganud seal sellist videot.

Kokkuvõttes näeme, et sporti ja ka malemängu politiseeritakse ja seejuures politiseeritakse kallutatult: sõda alustanud Venemaad karistatakse, aga genotsiidi teostavat Iisraeli mitte.

Seejuures sellise poliitika niisugused toetajad nagu Herbert Kruse ja Thibault de Vassal väldivad sisulisse vestlusse laskumist ja otsivad keerutades võimalusi, et nendele ebasobivate argumentide esitajat inkrimineerida ja talle valesüüdistusi esitada.

Sisulist arutelu ei ole toimunud.

Post Scriptum

Diskussiooni "A Public Appeal to Chess Organisations" saab ikkagi lugeda ka maleplatvormile FICGS sisse logimata. Arhiveeritult on see diskussioon SIIN.

Mul ei õnnestunud oma FICGS kontot hävitada. Ma ei leidnud seal kohta, kus seda teha oleks saanud. See on väga imelik maleplatvorm, kui sealt enam väljagi ei saa.

Thibault de Vassal on tõepoolest selle maleplatvormi üks organisaatoreid, selgub ka selle platvormi koduleheküljelt:

Selle maleplatvormi FICGS jututoas Forum sooritas Austraalia kirimaleühingu praegune või endine esimees, kirimale suurmeister Garvin Gray, mulle tugevaid isikuvastaseid rünnakuid. Muuhulgas tõlgendas ta ükskord minu küsimust paranoiliselt nii, justnagu oleksin ma midagi väitnud. Seejuures minu küsimustele vastas ta ainult näiliselt, sest tegelikult muutis ta alati teemat.

Viimatises vestluses malesanktsioonide üle avaldasin arvamust, et sporti ei tohiks politiseerida ja Venemaale ning Valgevenele kehtestatud malesanktsioonid tuleks tühistada. Kui neid aga ei tühistata, siis tuleks samasugused sanktsioonid kehtestada ka Iisraelile.

Seekord teatas selles foorumis maletaja Herbert Kruse täiesti tühja koha pealt, et mind tuleks vangi panna, et ma olevat Vene troll jms. Minu argumente malesanktsioonide kohta ignoreeris ta täielikult.

Muide, ma ei saa olla Vene troll, sest minu Avaliku Pöördumise mõned laused on sellised, et Venemaal võib praegu nende eest vanglasse sattuda.

Aga Thibault de Vassal, selle maleplatvormi üks administraator, esitas mulle valesüüdistuse, et ma olevat mingisuguse Iisraeli helikopteri kohta valeinformatsiooni levitanud, mida selle maleplatvormi Forumis ei tohi teha. See isik samuti täielikult ignoreeris minu argumente malesanktsioonide kohta. Funktsionaalne lugemisvõime puudub tal samuti või siis tõlgendas ta minu sõnu tahtlikult täiesti ebaloogilises võtmes. Seejuures mind sõimanud ja ähvardanud Herbert Krusele ta küll mingit märkust ei teinud.

Ma ei soovi selliste inimestega enam mitte mingil moel kokku puutuda. 

Kuna tegemist oli mitte suvaliste maletajatega, vaid üks oli Austraalia kirimaleühingu esimees, suurmeister ja teine oli selle platvormi administraator, siis pärast nende niivõrd barbaarset ja tsiviliseerimata käitumist ei taha ma ka maleplatvormist FICGS enam mitte kui midagi kuulda.

Ma ei hakka siin ütlema, mida ma sellistest inimestest arvan.

FIDE BANS KARJAKIN (FICGS FORUM)

I have not made any political posts on the Forum. 

Quite to the contrary: I have criticized politicizing sports. 

I am shocked by the answers I received from Garvin Gray and Thibault de Vassal. I do not think their comments exemplify a civilized discussion. The problem is that they are not arbitrary chess players but chess organizers. I conclude that rational discussion with those who support politicizing chess is impossible. 

I had already forgotten the FICGS server, but now I have received a notification that someone has commented on my old post. 

Bogoljub Teverovski announces on 09 August 2023:

"A self-ban of karjakin continues"

No hints have been made about what event he is talking about—no references, links, or explanations.

I can only understand that Bogoljub regards the FIDE ban on Karjakin as a Karjakin's SELF-ban. 

Let me add that 1 e2-e4 is the initial move of the Queen's gambit, and 1 Ng1-f3 is the most popular opening in checkers.

I am logging out from the FICGS not to receive any notifications anymore.